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Evening With Kevin Smith An CD1

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Kevin Smith directed and acted in his New Jersey Chronicles:
Clerks, Mallrats, Chasing Amy, Dogma...
...and the final chapter, Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back.
Smith presents his own lens through which we may view the world.
And although it's not always rose-colored...
...we learn a new way to examine spirituality...
...sexuality and human relationships. Give it up for Kevin Smith!
Are there signs that say "applause"?
'Cause I don't think I've ever gotten a reaction like that.
Reaction like that makes up for every chick ever said I had a small dick.
We'll just sit here until you're quiet and then make up the time afterwards.
Are we starting on this side? Is that why the camera's in his face?
- First one of the night, dude. - First question: What's a Nubian?
No, I'm just... I'm kidding.
I'm sure that's a first.
Not for nothing, but I will do the fucking jokes here.
Well, there went all my questions.
Actually I got a lot. But big question right now...
I haven't heard the answer before. You've probably stated it.
You're Silent Bob in the movies.
You wrote and directed. Why give yourself the Marcel Marceau part?
I'm sorry. I stopped listening.
Why give myself the Marcel Marceau part?
I would think it's obvious. I can't really act.
Which is why I wrote a movie in which I was the lead.
Because this is America, damn it, you know.
It happened by accident.
I'd written the role of Randal to play myself...
...back when I wrote Clerks...
...which is why he has the best jokes. As we got closer to production...
...I was like, "Who am I kidding? I can't act. I can't memorize dialogue.
Who can memorize this in particular?" There's a lot of dirty words in it.
So I gave the part to Jeff Anderson, a dude I'd went to high school with...
...who'd never shown any interest in acting and was perfect for it.
And I said, "If this is the only flick I'm gonna make, I wanna be in it...
...because I want to be able to look back years from now when I'm still paying...
...$28,000 in credit card debt, get really drunk with my friends...
...and be like, 'Remember the worst mistake of my life?
The one I'm still paying for?
Here it is. I'm in it. Wait, here it comes.
Look at that jackass."'
I at least wanted to be in it. So I was like, "What's left?"
I said, "Silent Bob." I'd written the part for a friend, Michael Bellicose...
...and he wound up as the guy who comes to the counter, and Dante's like:
"My girlfriend sucked 37 dicks."
And he says, "In a row?"
That's the guy. You guys are easy.
I'm just, like, gonna read from my scripts.
Then on page 19 in Chasing Amy, Banky said this.
He was supposed to be Silent Bob. I'd written it for him.
I thought he'd look good next to Mewes. Mewes is thin and always moving...
...and Mike's the opposite.
Then I said, "Wait a second. I'm way bigger than Mike.
I'm way less mobile and way stockier."
I said, "I don't have to memorize dialogue...
...and I'll look good standing next to Mewes."
Plus Mewes was not real reliable when it came to acting.
So I could stand there and pinch him. If you look at Clerks...
...and the other movies, we stand closely in Clerks...
...and sometimes you see me going like:
He's like:
"Snoogins." You know.
Because really, it is kind of like two steps away from:
So I did it because I wanted to be in it and not do dialogue...
...having no idea that I'd be so bereft of original ideas...
...that I'd keep those characters coming back.
I wrote Jay for Jason Mewes because I wanted to see him act...
...and I thought he was funny and wanted to see if others would find him funny.
Then I jumped in, and I said...
..."This is it. It's one time I'll be in the flick. We may not make another."
Then we kept going, and I kept bringing back the characters because...
...l'm not very creative and because Jason Mewes is very funny.
So I kept coming back with him. You don't want to split them up.
So I just kind of, you know, stepped into it quite by accident.
Well, thanks. And on behalf of all big men everywhere...
...doing a good job!
Don't lump me in with you.
I can say I'm fat. When you say it, it's insulting.
I've been watching his movies for a long time. I love all of them.
I saw Mallrats first. I fell in love with him after that.
The first thing I saw was Mallrats, and it was funny.
I connected to it for some reason.
I love his dialogues in his movies, like the random rampage people go on.
Especially in Clerks.
Me and my buddy Jay here have spent a lot of time mentoring ourselves...
...in the ways of Jay and Silent Bob.
It's... Ever since, you know... Clerks is really where we started off.
Awesome.
It's a whole new breed and a whole new era of movie-making...
...that he's brought on and everything from Jersey has been wonderful.
Kevin, thanks. It's been a great ride.
Do you think that this guy looks like you over here?
That guy?
That's Nathan and Gene. I'm in a sketch-comedy group with them...
...and we also wanted to know if you wanna hang out after...
...maybe go home and drink some beer. Got a big house...
Yeah, especially after that. Yeah.
You guys had a little shtick going on.
That was cute. Got right up and went, "You be Jay, I'll be Silent Bob."
That's tremendous.
Don't ever fucking do that again.
That routine is copyrighted.
Does the cat look like me? A little bit.
How short's your hair? Take your hat off.
I would never wear a sweater like that.
I guess it's easy to look like me.
Just pack on, like, 400 pounds, grow a beard.
But can you do this?
No?
Fuck. Because I was hoping to go out and get a cigarette.
I figured you could take over since we look so much alike.
Is that it?
Do you wanna hang out after? We're gonna be...
...drinking some beer and smoking some tobacco.
Like, fuck, no. No.
No. After the show, I go home and go to sleep.
- Why? What? - We're gonna have fun.
- I can give you our phone number after. - All right. Stick around.
- Okay. Thanks. - Wait a second. Why "oh"?
Like, am I supposed to get stoned, fuck a sheep, something like that?
I wanted to thank you for coming here. I got fired from my job so I could come.
- Get out of here. What a waste of time. - I'm dead serious.
Where did you work?
It's a Italian restaurant. I was busing.
- Really? - Yeah.
- Want me to call your boss? - Yeah!
- I'll get you the number. - All right.
- Okay. - Write it down and bring it up here.
"This is Kevin Smith." "Who?"
"It's Silent Bob, man." "Who?"
What's his number?
Come up.
- What's the number? - Right, the number is 8-1-2...
- That's the area code? - Yeah.
9-3...
- Ask for... - Shut up.
- Tara's working... - Get him on the phone.
And then I'll talk to him. Go.
Like to help when I can.
Amy, hey, this is Matt. Is Tara or Teresa still there? Okay.
They're about to come on.
- Which one? - I don't know.
- They'll say. - What's your name?
Matt. Brown.
- Lf this works, I want 10 percent. - All right.
Hey, Tara, this is Kevin Smith. I'm here with... What's his name?
- Matt Brown. - Matt Brown?
A dude who used to work there until tonight?
He wanted me to smooth things over.
He's in a room with about 30... 3200? 3200 people.
Sorry. And he said that he had to...
- Did you quit or get fired? - A little of both.
He said his job's in jeopardy because he came...
...and he wanted me to ask you if you could keep him on.
- No? - No!
They're turning on you, Tara.
Are you sure? Are you sure?
- Thank you. - No?
Thanks a lot. Anyway.
I just... I have no juice whatsoever.
We're all proud to have Kevin here as part of the Clark community.
I ignored my Jewish duty to be here tonight.
I'm a huge fan of Kevin Smith and his films and his comic books he's written...
...with Green Arrow and Daredevil.
I read on your website how you had just finished Jersey Girl...
...and it was, I wanna say, 184 pages...
...and how you were thinking of doing that with Affleck...
...but he was doing Daredevil and there was stuff going on...
- There was static. - There we go.
I was wondering if you could tell me about it.
- Elaborate? - Lf you could.
- I think you had all the details. - Okay.
Back in... On the Fourth of July I went to...
I was in Los Angeles working on Jay and Bob...
...and we went to Affleck's house for Fourth of July.
He's a big fan of Chasing Amy.
Still is, to this day. He liked playing the Holden part.
He wants me to write something like that again.
He's like, "Write something like Chasing Amy again. You've gotta.
Who else could write it? You've gotta. Fuck! Write it."
And I'm just like, "Motherfucker, one of us won an Oscar for writing."
I started telling him about this idea for a movie...
...which would become Jersey Girl.
He's like, "I love it. Write it." I said, "I will.
When do you wanna do it?" He said, "April."
I said, "Yeah. April's good."
It was July, and we had a few months.
I'd written 40 pages, and I sent them to him, and he fell in love with it...
...because I'm like a pusher. You know, the first taste is free.
And then you have to pay for the rest.
And how he pays is we make him work very cheap.
He earns $ 15 million a picture...
...but we bring him on and pay him about $ 15 an hour.
Around the same time...
...there's a dude named Mark Steven Johnson who's directing Daredevil.
He'd been hanging around while we were shooting the movie.
He said, "Who could play Daredevil?" And I said, "Affleck."
'Cause that's my answer for everything. I think Affleck could play...
I'm a big fan, so I think he can play anything. If people are like, "Jaws 5?"
I'm like, "Affleck. Affleck plays the fucking shark."
So I was like, "Affleck." He said, "You think?"
I said, "He'd be great. He'd dye his hair red."
Because Matt Murdock, Daredevil, is a redhead.
I said, "He'd be great, and he's a fan.
He wrote the intro to the Daredevil paperback I did."
I told Affleck, "There's a dude checking if you wanna play Daredevil."
He's like, "I love Daredevil. " I said, "That's what I told him."
He said, "What'd you say?" I said, "You should play it."
He said, "Why?" I was like, "I think you should play everything."
"Like, even the shark from Jaws?" "Yes, the shark from Jaws. "
So they hooked up, and they kind of dug each other...
...and soon Affleck called me and was just like...
..."I'm doing it. I'm gonna put on the red tights and have the horns."
I was like, "It couldn't be any more embarrassing than Pearl Harbor. "
I said, "When do you start?" He goes, "April."
I said, "That's when we're doing Jersey Girl. "
He said, "We can wait on Jersey Girl.
I do Daredevil, I get paid my big nut...
...and then we go do Jersey Girl, and you pay me $ 15 an hour."
I said, "I don't know, man, I think we should do Jersey Girl first."
He's like, "Don't get upset." I said, "I'm not upset, but fair's fair."
He's like, "You recommended me."
"I didn't know it would coincide with Jersey Girl. Fuck Daredevil. "
Because I'll turncoat real quickly.
At this point, I haven't even written more than 40 pages...
...but I insist that we go in April, even though I'm not done.
So two weeks go by, and he calls. I'd let word leak out through Miramax...
...that we were gonna go in April with or without Ben.
He calls and is like, "You'll shoot with somebody else? That's for me."
I said, "But you're gonna put on the tights, so fuck you."
He said, "How we gonna work this out?"
I said, "I'm going in April, and if you're there, great.
If not, no hard feelings. Go do Daredevil.
But I want to do something in April. I want to do this movie."
He's like, "Jesus Christ. Look, if you...
If you're saying you want me to do Jersey Girl in April...
...and you want me to pass on Daredevil, I will."
I was just like, "Well, if we move the movie to the summer...
...you have to promise to take far, far less than you normally take."
And he was just like, "God. Fine, dude. If that'll do it."
I said, "Excellent. That means a lot to me."
Then there's a long pause, and he's putting shit together in his mind...
...and he goes, "You didn't finish writing the fucking script yet, did you?"
And I said, "Nope, sucker. Goodbye."
I'm excited.
I have a couple of great questions for him.
I really like Mallrats.
He uses a large vocabulary and manages to get obscenities in there too.
When we called up the activity board, we said we'd be shooting at Kent State.
They were like, "Bullshit!
We went through that shit once before. Never again!"
That's a tough thing. That'll always be associated with this school.
They'll never live it down. The shooting.
It's a horrible thing, but it's kind of like Germany.
Kent State's not like Germany, but I went to Germany...
...with one of the flicks, and they're nice people, but when you get there...
...the first thing, you're like, "Where's the concentration camps?
We want to see the camps where you slaughtered many people. Where?"
They're like, "They're here, but we're Germans...
...we make cars and culture, beer. I'm sure you like beer.
Wouldn't you like to see any of that?"
We're like, "Just the concentration camps.
We want to see the biggest colossal blunder of any culture, anywhere.
Take us." They're like, "All right, get in the fucking car."
There's always an older person, like the cab driver.
And you're like, "Were you around?"
The dude's like 26.
And he's like, "No, but my grandparents were. They were alive."
"Well, did they know? Were they in trouble? Tell us. What? More!"
The guy's like... He's heard it a zillion times.
"They teach it in school, and then we go accuse our grandparents of atrocities."
I think that's what he said. I can't understand German.
I'm sure he was just like, "Shut the fuck up, fat American."
That's a tough thing to live down. One day somebody from Kent State...
...will cure cancer, and it'll be, "At Kent State we cured cancer."
And they'll be like, "Yeah, but didn't you have those shootings there?"
I'm hoping for mass carnage and orgies and chaos.
It'll be weird to hear him talk for more than two seconds at a time.
He doesn't say much in the movie, but when he does, everyone turns and looks.
There are questions I wanna ask.
- Gotta love the dialogue in Clerks. - Mallrats. Much better.
- How come? - More lowbrow humor. I love that.
- Third nipple's awesome. - Dick and fart jokes.
I hope Jay shows up. They do some crazy stuff.
I was supposed to have somebody with me today.
However, fucking moron missed his plane.
But I brought the phone so we can call him.
Bear with me.
- See you later, man. - Get off the cell phone!
How much you guys pay for this?
- Hello. - Hello. Hold on.
I'm in... I'm in fucking Wyoming.
You should see it. It's desolate.
What's up?
I'm driving out here, there's nobody on the road.
It was like the opening of Mallrats. Nobody.
That's why I didn't go.
I'm gonna count to three...
...you say, "Hello, Wyoming." Ready? One, two, three.
What up, Wyoming?
Don't cheer too loud. He missed his fucking plane.
Explain to these people why you're not here. On three.
- Jay, you fucking stoner! - One, two, three.
I missed the plane, man. I overslept. I was getting ass.
- You're not supposed... - You fucking asshole!
Somebody just called you a fucking asshole. Kick his ass, dude.
You can't miss shit like this, dude.
When they put "Jay and Silent Bob" on the marquee, you have to show up.
Fuck that.
- We fire people for this kind of thing. - What are you talking about?
What up? Look at that. Look at that sign.
We tricked them, dude.
Who called me an asshole?
- Who called me the asshole? - That dude over there.
What's up, dude? What's up?
So that was our little bit for the evening.
It was good.
You can see we're such great actors they gave us our own movie once.
And that'll never happen again.
- My name is Erin Guy. - Hi.
- Hi, how you doing? - I'm good.
I'm very well, thank you.
- Two questions. - Yes.
One, how did you come up with the characters Jay and Silent Bob?
- Yes. - And two, are either of you married?
To each other? Because it feels like it.
How did I come up with Jay and Silent Bob? It came from Mewes.
Growing up... Watching Mewes grow up, rather...
All right, chill the fuck out. Get the microphone, come on down.
You can be on camera, don't sit pussy back and be like, "Yeah!"
Basically, Jay and Silent Bob came from knowing Jason Mewes.
When I went off to film school in Canada, I said:
"I'm gonna come back and put you in a movie."
He said, "Okay." At that point, he was straight edge. He wore the black X.
- And he was just like no... - Bullshit!
Exactly. This:
No booze, no drugs, no cigarettes, no women.
The women thing confused me. Straight edge, I understand, is...
...no booze, no drugs, no cigarettes.
But most straight edge people fucked, except for this guy.
Since he didn't fuck, he was like, "Well, no, they're no good either."
Because he wasn't getting laid.
But he would talk about pussy incessantly. All the time.
Like, "I'm gonna get that pussy. I'm gonna lick it, I'm gonna do this."
You look at him, and you're like, "You haven't seen pussy since you were born!"
You could tell, because he talked a good game...
...but as soon as a girl was around, he'd fucking clam up.
And he'd get on his stone face. His "I am Mewes," very cool face.
He'd be like, "I'm gonna lick that pussy."
The girl would be coming over here. He's like, "I'm gonna lick..."
This used to be... He doesn't do it now. This used to be his cool face.
With the eyes affixed to whoever he was studying.
But looking this way and they were that way.
It was a peripheral thing. Then the girl would walk past him.
Then the moment she was out of his peripheral and earshot...
...he'd be like, "I'm gonna lick that pussy."
So he talked a good game, and then I left for Vancouver and came back.
I dropped out after four months, but I was gone for a total of six.
By the time I came back, he was completely debauched.
Like, you know, the straight X was long gone.
And the "no women" thing was also long gone.
If he had a belt that was notched...
...it would be like the fucking Chewbacca belt around his body.
Because he's like the Wilt Chamberlain of indie film. He's fucked a lot.
Right?
When I came back, he was a little different...
...but I wrote Jay based on who he was when I left...
...who he was when he was younger. The weird sonic boom with dirt on it.
- Thanks. - How long have you known each other?
- Thanks. - How long have you known each other?
Obviously, a long time, but I don't follow up.
I'm not like, you know, a connoisseur, but...
I love your guys' movies and everything...
But... No... Okay, I'm digging a hole here, so...
Just deep.
- It's like 13 years. - Yeah.
You don't have to be a connoisseur to know that, though.
I met him through my friends Bryan and Walter at the Rec Center.
I worked with them for a year...
...and then I left. And they told me these stories about Mewes...
...who everybody kind of knew, but didn't know.
He was younger than us, but you saw him in town.
He was the town's kid, the kid of urban legend or suburban legend.
"There's Mewes. He broke the fucking window at Katz's."
Or, "Here's the Mewes kid. I hear he fucked a dog."
- Did you really fuck the dog? - Only once.
I didn't know him, and Bryan and Walter would tell me stories about him.
They're like, "He's so funny. He says these funny things.
He's really fucking weird and funny."
I didn't like that, 'cause I was their new funny friend, so I was kind of territorial.
We'd go to comic book shows, and I'd drive to the city...
...because they were too pussy to drive to the city.
One day Bryan and Walter showed up with Mewes.
I said, "What's this? What's with the kid? What, are you babysitting?"
They said, "We're gonna bring him. He loves comics, take him to the show.
Make fun of the people there. Not us."
I said, "I'm not bringing a minor across state lines."
The show was in New York. Bryan was like, "I'll drive."
Mewes is the kind of asshole that's like, "Shotgun!"
He jumps in the front, and I'm crammed in the back. What was it, a Firebird?
Yeah.
With my knees up to my fucking ears...
...and he's in the front:
"Snootch. Snoogins."
And Bryan and Walter are like:
I'm in the back, like, "He ain't so fucking funny."
Bryan and Walter lost interest in him, and he started coming over to my place.
He'd knock, and I'd go out and be like, "What?"
And he'd be like, "You want to do something today?"
I was like, "No."
I said, "We share friends, but we're not friends.
We're both friends with Bryan and Walter.
I know you live around the block, but we don't hang out."
He's like, "All right, all right. So, what do you want to do?"
I said, "If you really want to hang out, come with me to the store...
...Quick Stop, 5:30 Sunday morning. We'll make papers."
You ever make papers?
The Sunday newspapers come in, like, five sections.
You have to put them together. We had five Sunday papers...
...which was a lot.
You have 200 of each, so you're doing this for hours upon end.
- That job sucks! - Terrible, isn't it?
- Yes. - This one's not much better.
I'd asked Bryan and Walter to go, and they're like, "Fuck you."
"5:30, Sunday morning, it'll be fun." They were like, "No."
But Mewes, I was like, "You want to hang out?
Come down to the store. I'll give you $2.00."
He was like, "All right." So he'd come down.
We'd stack some of them on the ice cream case...
...that Dante and Randal sit on in Clerks when he's doing the salsa shark.
We'd stack them there, and Mewes would sleep on the freezer case.
Mewes is a horrible fucking sleeper. When he sleeps, he drools like a child.
Here's this dude sleeping with his mouth open...
...tons of liquid pouring out onto the freezer case and freezing.
So he had this icicle thing going on. Then people would get papers...
...and as the piles got lower and lower, he'd show up.
So somebody would be like, "What the fuck!"
We started hanging out that way and bonded.
The day that I realized he was a comedic genius without knowing it...
...hopefully he still doesn't know it...
...was the day that Walter and I were in the Rec Center...
...the kids hadn't come in yet...
...and it's all quiet and the door fucking gets kicked open.
Mewes marches in like Groucho Marx and fellates anything somewhat phallic.
So if there's a pool cue, he's sucking it off.
Grabs the phone, sucks it off.
Grabs the flag, takes the eagle off, sucks it off.
Everything, going... Sucking everything in the room off.
Walter and I are watching him go, just like:
He never looked at us for approval.
Like, "This is funny. I'm sucking everything off."
Almost like he didn't know we were there or didn't care.
Like, he had an agenda. I always pictured him walking around town going...
..."It's 2:30. I better go to the Rec and suck everything off."
He does this for 15 minutes, then reaches...
We had an Asteroids machine, which, if you remember...
...has a roller ball instead of a joystick.
And he fucking stops dead. Because there's no joystick.
And me and Walter are like:
You know, 'cause what's a guy to do? He ran out of phallic symbols.
And he shrugged, and he went down on the roller ball.
So I said, "This is a dude I wanna hang out with forever."
Because A: He's pretty funny. B: He looks like he sucks a lot of dick.
For them slow nights, that's a good guy to have around.
It's like, "No chicks. We saw all the movies.
Wanna suck my dick?"
"All right, moves." We've been hanging out for 13 years.
- Cool. - Okay.
- Thanks for coming. - Thanks for having.
In the comics and the movies, does Jay's tiny dick...
...and latent homosexuality come from his escapades at the Rec Center?
Or is there something else behind that?
- You're writing the shit. - Yeah.
- What are you writing about? - So I should answer?
- Answer it, Jay. - Yeah, why don't you answer.
- What? - Is any of it true?
Well, are you asking if I have a small dick?
I don't know about my dick. I don't know if it's small.
I know it's not big, though. But...
You got a thousand judges here. Whip it out.
- I'm not... - They'll let you know.
I'm not gay, though. No, I love pussy.
I love pussy. So much.
- Pull his cock out of your mouth, dude. - Who, him? Me or him?
No, they're talking about me. No, I like the cock in my mouth.
Why don't you put a cock in your mouth and shut your face.
You got unleashed for a second.
You're like, "Put a fucking cock in your mouth and shut your face."
Jay and Silent Bob have great chemistry, great sexual tension.
How come in the last one they never got it on? I was disappointed.
How come they didn't just fuck?
- Yeah. The whole movie... - Wait till DVD. Wait till DVD.
Thank you. On your final project, Jay and Silent Bob porn, whole movie.
Jay and Silent Bob porn.
There are days when I'm afraid that that will become true...
...because Mewes isn't the most discerning actor on the planet.
He was hanging out with this dude named Johnny Nitro.
Guy makes porn. He was like, "I went to the set of a porn."
I was like, "What was that like?" He was like, "It was cool.
They were fucking, and they asked me if I wanted to get in, so I was..."
I said, "Wait. Wh...? What?"
He was like, "It was a courtroom scene. They asked if I wanted to sit in the jury."
I said, "You didn't do it, did you?" And he was like, "N... No."
I was like, "Just as long as it's no."
So periodically I cruise the porn aisle...
...to make sure Mewes isn't in any of the movies.
Just for that, you know.
But, no Jay and Bob porn in the future.
There is a Jay porn that exists without Silent Bob. But Silent Bob watched it.
- Can I get a copy? - A copy?
Yeah.
Not tonight. Because I don't have it on me.
But I'll try to make it publicly available.
We sell everything else on that website of ours.
www.viewaskew.com
- You like Jay, do you? - Yeah.
Is he single? Is he single?
Is he single? Yeah.
Inasmuch as, like, he's tied to no one person.
- So there's a chance? - There's always a chance, my friend.
- Thank you. - Okay.
- Hey, Kevin... - Wait. Wait. Wait.
You saying you're "into Mewes" into Mewes?
Not yet.
You owe me for that tremendous setup, sir.
Would you like to hear about how he almost got married?
- Yes. - Yeah.
You gotta ask him one day. It's pretty funny.
Mewes had a girlfriend for a long time.
And one day... I don't wanna say her name...
...'cause he's no longer with her. We were going to the mall...
...and he goes, "So I did it last night. I asked..."
Fuck it, her name's Jamie. "I asked Jamie to marry me."
And I said, "Really?" He's like, "I kind of did it all cool too."
He has this fish tank. He's like, "I got her these expensive fish...
...and then I put the ring in this box at the bottom of the fish tank...
...you know, bubbles, a little treasure chest, and it opens...
...and she came in, and I said, 'Look at the fish. '
She saw the ring, and I got down on one knee and proposed."
I was like, "That is really fucking cool, man. Like, I'm shocked. You?
That is really sweet. I wish I'd been there for that.
It would've been nice to be a fly on the wall for that."
He's like, "Well, I taped it."
I said, "You did?"
He's like, "I set up a tape recorder in the corner...
...and turned it on when I knew she was coming.
And then she pulled up and was talking to my mom for a bit...
...and I was getting pissed...
...and I wasn't gonna propose to her anymore...
...because she was making me wait."
The exact mind frame you wanna enter into marriage with.
He's like, "But then she came in, and we went through it, and it's all on tape."
I said, "I would like to see that. Give me the tape."
He's like, "I will." And he's like, "There's another tape too."
I was like, "What do you do on that one?"
He was like, "We fuck." And I was like, "Get the fuck out of here!"
He was like, "We were celebrating. We got engaged.
So I changed the tape, and we started going at it."
And I said, "I gotta see that one too!"
He's like, "You wanna see it?" I was like, "Shit, yes!
Give me the tape." So he gave me both...
...the engagement tape and the Jason Mewes fuck tape.
I took them home and threw the wedding tape aside.
He told me about it, fuck it. I wanna see this man in action.
I put in the tape. And it's one of the worst amateur porns you've ever seen.
It's a real one-camera setup. It's like Clerks.
But even funnier.
Sets up the camera, and the MTV Video Music Awards plays in the background.
Whole time. Now across from them, in the frame...
...is a framed poster of the X-Men. The comic book version.
And in the reflection of the X-Men is the Video Music Awards.
So the camera the whole time is auto-focusing between Jay and Jamie...
...and the Video Music Awards.
So, number one, it's the most irritating porn in the world to watch...
...because you're like:
Number two, he pretty much gets in there and blocks the whole thing.
You're not seeing anything good. Just his ass up and down.
And I've seen that a zillion fucking times.
But the best part about it was what I told him...
...because he wanted me to critique it.
I was like, "I'm the last guy that should be telling you this...
...but you gotta work on your camera work.
But number two, I gotta talk to you about your whole finale."
He's like, "What about it?" I'm like, "Dude, it's weak sauce."
He's like, "What do you mean?" And I was like, "This is you:"
And he starts fucking cracking up.
When he really starts laughing, he's like:
His veins pop out. I'm like, "I'm serious.
You fucking give three thrusts, one tug, and you walk away.
Try a little tenderness, you know? A cuddle, something."
I was like, "And it went on forever. At a certain point, I stopped watching...
...and concentrated on the VMAs because it was on in the background."
But he promised to work on his technique.
And I've yet to see the follow-up.
But now that I know you're available...
That's the one I would like to see.
I've seen him fuck a chick, and I wasn't impressed.
My name is Abe Mohammedian.
I got a question about you and Scott Mosier.
What's the history about your relationship...
...and the dynamic that's followed through with the five movies?
My history with Mosier...
I went to Vancouver Film School in British Columbia...
...because it was a quick tech program. It was eight months.
Nine grand for eight months. At the end...
...they don't give you a degree, you get a certificate that says you finished...
...which is about as useful as a degree, you'll find out.
So I was there for four months and then dropped out and went back to Jersey.
I went for hands-on technical stuff.
They were like, "It's all practice. All practical. No theory."
Then we did theory for three months.
I don't need some Canadian dude...
...telling me what Demme was trying to say with Silence of the Lambs.
So I stuck around for a little bit, but during that time I met Mosier.
The first day I went to class... We had one class, 25 people.
And we, you know, went through every class together.
They bring in a new bunch, I think, every four months.
Mosier was a guy in a class that I was like, "Look at this pretty boy."
He had, like, this real 90210 'do, a Luke Perry thing going on.
He came in in a leather jacket, like, a motorcycle hood...
...but, like, a good-looking one.
Like, the motorcycle hood with a heart of gold...
...whose mom died, and he's just really misunderstood...
...and he'll hook up with Brenda before the season's out. That was my take.
Mosier said his first take on me was, "Look at the blowhard asshole."
So we didn't really speak...
...and then we got thrown together on this project.
Turns out, we had a similar sense of humor.
We joked about calling our production company "Post Party At Spago's."
We both got it, and nobody else did. So I was like, "I wanna hang out with this guy.
He gets the obscure, bad references."
We started hanging out more and more. That's where our friendship built.
I was like, "I'm not gonna stick around.
If I get out before the four-month mark...
...I get to walk with five grand.
I'm gonna take my five grand and put it in a movie.
I'm gonna go home and start writing."
But he wanted to finish the course because his parents would be proud.
I didn't care about my parents.
They were like, "Look, we know you're a failure.
If you drop out, it's fine." So I did.
I said, "I'm gonna go home and write.
You write, and whoever gets done first, the other will help the other one out.
If you finish your script, I'll help you. If I finish mine, you help me."
I finished Clerks first, and he came down.
He got trapped into the role of de facto producer.
Nobody goes to film school going, "I wanna produce."
Everyone wants to be a filmmaker.
My job is kind of the dream job.
I get to write, you know, fucking, "Jay and Silent Bob run into a wall."
Then I hand it to him. He's like, "All right. It'll cost this much.
We have to hire this many people." His job is the tough job.
Particularly on Chasing Amy, his head almost exploded.
We were trying to make that movie for $250,000.
Initially, we wanted to do it for $3 million.
We had done Mallrats for $6 million.
First one was $28,000. Second one, Mallrats, $6 million.
We were like, "We'll go to a sensible budget, $3 million."
We pitched the movie to Miramax, gave them the script...
...and they were like, "This is great. Who do you wanna put in it?"
I was like, "I wrote it for Ben Affleck, Jason Lee, Joey Lauren Adams."
And the exec was like, "Oh, no. We have to put celebrities in it.
We were thinking Drew Barrymore, Jon Stewart, David Schwimmer."
And I was like, "Why? Where'd you get that grouping from?
Did you just pick those three off the top of your head?"
They'd had deals with them.
I said, "I wanna make it with my people."
And the exec said words I will never forget:
"Kevin, it's not about making a movie with your friends."
I was like, "Really?"
That's been the whole point of my career.
So I went to see Harvey Weinstein, the chairman.
I said, "Look, you guys wanna do the movie at $3 million with a cast.
I wanna use the people I wrote it for.
Let us make the movie for $200,000. We'll bring it back. If you like it, buy it.
If not, we take it someplace else." We have an overall deal with them.
He said, "200,000? I'll give you 250."
And I said, "That's really generous. All right, man, that's cool."
I went home and said, "Mosier, Harvey gave us the money."
He's like, "Get out!" I was like, "I asked one amount, he gave me more."
And Mosier was like, "Terrific. You're really good at this shit.
So, what's the budget?" And I was like, "$250,000!"
And Mosier was just like:
The brain came out, and he was like, "$250,000? Are you nuts?
We can't make a movie for that."
I was like, "We made a movie for $28,000."
He's like, "That's barely a movie. This movie is more complicated.
How are we gonna do it?" I was like, "You'll figure it out.
I gotta call Ben and Jason." He's like, "Good Lord."
So he spent most of Chasing Amy, like, sleeping in his office...
...trying to figure out where the money was coming from...
...trying to make everything work on a shoestring.
Shooting that movie for $250,000 almost killed him. And I never noticed.
My job's kind of always the same no matter what the budget is.
I write it, and then I rehearse the actors and hope...
...they give the performance that I heard in my head when I wrote it...
...if not a better performance.
No matter the budget, my job doesn't change.
But Mosier's job is always affected by the budget.
The last one was 20 million bucks. Jay and Bob Strike Back.
And he was happy as a pig in shit. I'm like, "There's a problem."
He was like, "That's fine, throw some money at it."
Problem solved, you know.
But with the other ones, it's like, "We got a problem."
He's like, "It's not my fault. You asked for 200 grand, asshole." I'm like, "Oh."
He runs the gamut, depending on what the budget is.
Dogma was tight. We had $ 10 million. We should've had more to do it.
Also, we were dealing with crazy schedules of people coming and going.
They were paid scale, which is, like, minimum wage of the movie business.
So we had to allow them to do other things if they wanted.
That became a nightmare for him.
But the last one he had a great time doing.
He's like, "I love making movies with you, but I hate the shit I have to go through.
I hate dealing with these people."
And I'm like, "All right, we can make movies with puppets."
But he's not real... He's afraid of puppets.
So he's in this weird headspace where he bought a VW conversion van.
And Mosier... You don't know him so it's not gonna play as well...
...but Mosier doesn't buy extravagant things.
He kind of lives a very monk-like life.
So one day I came to the office, and I saw this tricked out conversion van.
I was like, "Whose piece of shit is that?"
He's like, "That's mine." I was like, "Why'd you get that?"
He's like, "I don't know. $38,000.
I figure instead of walking the earth, I can drive the earth."
He's like, "Here's the sink and a stove.
Out back there's a little shower thing. The top is a pop-out.
I got two beds up here and beds down here.
Me and Monica could sleep up here.
You and Jen could sleep under us." I'm like, "I'd be up for that."
So he's in this weird kind of "I've got a VW van" headspace...
..."and I don't know if I wanna keep making movies for Miramax."
If that makes any sense.
- Yeah, so... - We should call him.
- Call Ben! - You know, Mosier first. Hold on.
Believe me, I'd much rather call people all night.
Just hold the phone to the mike.
Hey, Monica? Is Scotty there? Okay.
Hey, man, what's up? I'm at Kent State on stage.
I'm gonna count to three. I'm gonna put you to the mike.
In 20 seconds, give them a rough breakdown of your conversion van.
Yeah, like what it's tricked out with. All right, ready?
I'll hold you to the mike. Ready? One, two, three.
It's got a fridge, it's got a two-burner stove, a sink.
It can sleep four. It's got the pop-up.
Runs off propane so I can run a thermostat, keep it hot.
Make a little love, you know.
- Anything else? - Not much more to say than that, man.
Come on, you sold it to me bigtime.
That's about it, man.
What did you pay for it?
- It cost, like, about between 35 and 40. - You got ripped off.
Look, I've been working a long time, man.
- All right. - What color?
What color is it? It's beige? No, it's white.
That's beautiful, man!
Some guy in the back went, "That's beautiful, man."
All right, man, that's it. All right, bye.
Hi, I'm Shawn Johnson. In your writing...
...do you take any of your own life experiences and put them in?
Yes, one time me and my friends were running from this rubber poop monster.
Smart ass.
And then we tried to sneak into Miramax Studios, you know...
...fell onto the set of Good Will Hunting II.
No, generally not. Because real life tends to be very boring.
Which is why the dialogue I write tends to be the way it is, 'cause people say:
"It sounds like you write down the conversations of friends. It's natural."
Not at all. The conversations I have with my friends are probably similar to yours.
Like, "What did you do?"
"Got laid." "Awesome."
One word. Really monosyllabic, caveman-type talk.
But I've read somewhere the writer crafts their ideal world.
In mine, everyone has long conversations about interesting pop-culture shit.
And everyone talks in monologues.
But generally not. There are instances of real life.
I did work at Quick Stop and RST. That's about where it stops.
There were people that would check the date of the milk...
...but not like the lady in the movie, who was my mom, incidentally.
People do check the eggs at the counter. That bugged me.
Check eggs in front of you...
...as if I'm sitting in the back with a little hammer, like:
Like, "I'll break one, and they'll never know."
You blow that shit out of proportion. That makes it interesting.
If I wrote about real life, Chasing Amy would be about the fact...
...that I couldn't stand that my girlfriend had gone to Bali and I didn't.
Not a very interesting movie.
So I'm like, "Maybe her boyfriend suggests they sleep with his best friend."
That's more interesting. Shit like that doesn't happen to me in real life.
I've never said to Scott Mosier, "We should fuck my girlfriend."
He's like, "We have budget problems." "I know, let's fuck my girlfriend."
He's like, "I don't know if it'll help, but okay."
You tend to exaggerate, but you start with a kernel of truth.
Like, Chasing Amy... I was very much like Holden.
I was insecure about girlfriends' pasts when I wrote that.
And now I'm beyond... I'm 31. Now I'm insecure about the grave.
I don't care who fucked who. I just don't wanna die.
- Thank you. - Thanks, man.
- Thank you. - Thanks, man.
Comedy in general, and especially your kind of witty satire, often...
I'm sorry. Often stems from some sort...
I've never heard it described like that: "Your kind of witty satire."
"Your bullshit." Go ahead.
Comedy seems to me like it stems from a level of frustration in life.
Is that true for you? Is there a specific area of your life...
...where you were frustrated as a child or when you were younger?
You talk about, "This is for the girls who said my dick was small."
Is there some area of life that was particularly frustrating...?
Take a fucking guess, dude.
I don't... I think... Here, I can answer it. I'll put my spin on it.
I think I do what I do because I grew up fat.
The room came down. Don't get all serious. It's fucking true.
It's not like a life-threatening afflic... It is, but it's not.
Because I grew up a heavy kid, it tended to make me want to be funny.
If you can't get over with your looks...
You don't know what I mean. You're a good-looking man.
- That's the first time I've heard that. - What are you doing after the show?
I'm not just talking about girls.
People hang out with a certain aesthetic type...
...people that look "normal." When you don't look "normal," you're castigated.
Kind of like, "Well, that kid's fat. Yipes!"
If you have something else going for you, they overlook your physical flaws.
That's my theory, what I've found in life. So... From you fucking thin people.
It came from there. My comedy comes from that.
Thank you.
Thanks for bringing up really painful fucking memories.
I like how the room got. They're like, "Holy shit! He's about to cry."
Go ahead.
What do your parents feel about your films?
My parents... My mother, when she saw Clerks...
...when I sat her down to watch it...
...she turned to me and goes, "You spent $27,000 on that piece of garbage?"
I was like, "Thanks, Mom. That's real Carol Brady of you."
Then she grew to like the movies. She didn't care for Mallrats either...
...but Chasing Amy she really loved and connected to for some reason.
I know.
I'm watching the movie with her, and she's laughing at blowjob jokes.
Like, her and my old man are chuckling at blowjob jokes, and I'm just like:
"Oh, God. She's giving him head."
She cried at the end of the movie. I was really moved by that.
I was like, "Oh, my God, you really got into it."
She was like, "I identify with that movie in ways you'll never understand."
And I was like:
They've caught on. She liked Dogma because she's a lifelong Catholic...
...and it addressed many issues that she has as well...
...but would never voice for fear of going to hell.
Which, she maintains, is where I'm going.
And Jay and Bob she thought was really cute.
That's what she says. She's like, "It was cute. You guys ran around a lot.
Was it tough to run around like that in that long coat?"
I felt like I was at a fucking college q and a, the caliber of that question.
That wasn't directed at everybody.
I'm Jenny Sheibley. First of all, I really liked Dogma.
- Thank you. - And I was wondering...
It's two parts, okay?
- A: Do you believe in God? - Yes.
- And B: Why or why not? So why? - Yes.
Yes, I believe in God. Why? Because I have a career.
Okay.
There can be no better proof for the existence of God...
...than the fact that I have a film career. I think so.
- Okay. Thank you. - All right. Thanks.
- My name is... - There's no camera on you.
Well, that's okay.
Somebody is sending you a very clear message, sir.
- Go ahead. - I'm David Klesh.
Could you talk about the effect of your Catholic upbringing in your movies?
Specifically Dogma.
I would imagine that watching Dogma, that would be very clear.
But since you asked, I grew up very Catholic.
I went to eight years of Catholic school.
I really dug the faith when I was a kid.
Then as I got older, started struggling with it, as most people do...
...and was just like, "Wait a second.
I appreciate the message and who Christ was and what Christ did...
...but I'm not really into the dogma."
I.e., I want to fuck before I get married.
But no, it stretched beyond that.
I think by the time I started really questioning, I was about 18, 19.
And I started wondering, like, "Wait a second...
...we hold the book, the Bible, to be the word of God."
And meanwhile, many, many years ago...
...Grecians and Egyptians held their books to be the word of gods.
Now we read their shit as literature and chuckle at silly stories.
Will someone one day read our books and chuckle?
If so, then is there a God? Did we just create God?
Did somebody create God so that I would quit asking questions?
I went through a real crisis of faith...
...and worked through it years later by writing Dogma.
The idea came from a crisis of faith.
By the end of the first draft, I knew exactly where I stood on religion.
I believe in faith, in God, in Christ. I'm a Christian.
I'm a spiritual person, but religion gets many people in trouble.
Making that movie was fine.
But when we were getting ready to put it out...
...it was fucking nuts. We got death threats.
We had 300,000 pieces of hate mail and three death threats.
Or two. Two-and-a-half death threats.
Because I think one recanted toward the end.
"I'm gonna fucking kill you! Well, maybe not."
There was one that I'll never forget and will take it with me to my grave.
Not the actual missive, but what it said. I've read it so many times...
I've read it to people so many times that I committed it to memory:
"You Jews better take the money you stole from us and buy flak jackets...
...because we're coming in there with shotguns. Your brothers in Christ... "
The Jews in question were Harvey and Bob Weinstein...
...who run Miramax and Dimension, who were originally releasing the flick.
They got it the worst. I was Catholic, so people would just be like...
..."You ought to know better. But your Jew buddies will pay."
You don't want to point out that Christ was Jewish...
...because these people tend to forget that.
"Jewish? No, he's a Wasp."
But it was insane.
We had to stop receiving mail at the office. They had a service open it.
We couldn't receive packages for a year.
When we went to Cannes, they wanted to put up metal detectors.
The Palais wouldn't let them, so Miramax hired armed bodyguards.
It was really a kooky time. And the whole time I'm just like:
"It's a movie with a fucking rubber poop monster in it." You know?
"Take it easy!"
But people judge it, of course, without seeing it.
Mostly the people who were attacking the movie would never see it.
They never bothered.
If they had watched it, they would've been like:
"We'd be stupid to go after it because it's not a threat.
There is a rubber poop monster up there on the screen.
The kid was right." But they didn't, so you know...
We were the way for the group that went after us, the Catholic League...
...to go after Disney and Miramax, who were the original distributors.
They tend to go after Disney quite a bit.
If you go after Disney, you get a lot of press.
Particularly if you're charging Disney with being anti-Catholic.
The weird thing is when the Weinsteins bought the movie from Miramax...
...and resold it to Lions Gate, the eventual distributors...
...the Catholic League went away. They made so much noise about, like:
"We'll take this movie down. It'll never be seen.
It's a true affront to all Catholics. God hates it. Blah, blah, blah."
When Lions Gate picked it up, they were like, "We won."
We were like, "How? The movie's still coming out."
They were like, "Yeah, but Disney's not distributing it."
I was always very curious about the protesters and whatnot.
So when the movie came out, I got involved.
I read in the Asbury Park Press that there was gonna be a protest...
...at our theater in Eatontown, the Sony multiplex.
So I said, "Holy shit. I wanna go." I read there was gonna be 1500 people.
I said, "I'm bound to know some of them because I went to church with them.
My mom might be one of them."
I wanna go, and I said to the wife, "Let's go to the protest."
She was like, "You're fucking nuts." I said, "We should go. It'll be fun."
She said, "I don't know."
I said, "We'll call Bryan. He'll go too." My friend Bryan Johnson.
I called him and said, "You wanna go protest the movie?"
He's like, "I've been dying to do that for months."
So Bryan came over, and we grabbed some construction paper.
Like, those big pieces.
We got magic markers and glue and sparklies, and we made signs.
We're working on our signs really well because we want to blend in.
And one of them said, "Dogma is Dogshit."
The other one said, "To Hell With Dogma. "
Both of us were really taking our time.
Just, like, not going outside the lines.
"Is this done?" "No, a little glitter."
Really went all out. And then drove over to the multiplex.
So we get there, and the 1500 is about 15, period.
I see a smattering of people at the head of the driveway...
...very far from the theater.
I'm like, "Wow, that looks weird. They must be watching the protest."
We pull up and that is the protest. So we got out with our signs.
Bryan and I are the youngest people there by about 50 years.
So it's a bunch of 65-year-old people, maybe some 50-year-olds.
They're all praying the rosary, and they have a very large crucifix...
...with our Lord, in his usual pose.
They're all reciting the rosary, which I know well...
...because I went to Catholic school.
Bryan didn't, so I said, "Follow after me."
I'm like, "Our father, who art in heaven... " Bryan's like:
"Lord...
Jesus...
Joseph..."
I'm like, "He's not in the Our Father!"
We're holding our signs, reciting the rosary...
...and we notice that nobody really has any signs.
At least, none that are nearly as nice as ours.
There's a dude whose sign looks like it was torn out of the bottom of a box.
Like, just kind of cut out. And it said, "Dogma is Bad."
It looked like he wrote it in his car with a pen from his glove compartment.
No glue, no sparklies...
...not a streamer in sight. Really, just no effort whatsoever.
He's standing next to me. I have my sign.
He's holding his sign, it's this big. Mine is like a sandwich board.
We're doing the Our Father. I'm next to him. He's like:
"Our father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom... "
He put his sign down because he was so embarrassed that mine was that great.
And a lady who was about three or four people over had seen our signs...
...had looked when we were joining the line or when we'd joined the line already.
She came over and said, "You can't have that here." I said, "Why?"
She's like, "You can't say that kind of thing here."
She was pointing at "Dogma is Dogshit."
She's like, "You gotta get rid of that." I'm like, "I wanna protest the movie."
She's like, "We don't need that kind of help. We don't wanna say those things."
I was like, "But it's true. The movie is."
She said, "Just take the word off. Take that one offensive word off."
And I said, "But then it just says 'Dogma is Dog."'
She said, "Just take off the two letters." I said, "All right."
And I bend it up. And so now it says, "Dogma is Dogsh."
She goes back to her place. About 15 minutes into the fourth...
We're into the fourth decate. A news van pulls up.
I'm not lying. News van pulls up. Channel 12 News, local in our area.
So I'm standing there, and I'm looking at them.
I'm thinking, "This'll be interesting."
I think about bolting. I was like, "These people don't know, they'll never know."
A lady gets out, journalist, well-dressed, and she has a clipboard.
All of a sudden, she kind of looks in my general direction.
She goes back to looking around, then comes back and looks at her clipboard.
So she comes over. And Bryan's like, "Holy shit."
She comes over. She's looking at her clipboard and looking at me.
And she's like, "Are you him?"
And I was like, "No, that's him."
You know, because our Lord was there. And she goes:
"No, are you him? Are you the guy?"
I said, "No, no. But I get that all the time."
She was like, "Would you mind if I interviewed you?" I said, "Please."
Because I'm a press whore. So even, you know, if I'm incognito...
...l'm happy to give an interview. So she calls the camera guy over.
He starts shooting, and she's like, "So, what are you doing here tonight?"
I said, "We're protesting this movie."
She said, "Okay. Have you seen it?" And I said, "No, no."
You know, because I wanted to be in character.
I said, "No, but they tell me it's really bad."
She's like, "Right. Have you seen anything else made by the filmmaker?"
I said, "No, no. Well, I saw Clerks. That was really funny.
But I'm not gonna watch anything else. I'm certainly not gonna watch this."
And she's like, "What's your name?" And I was like, "Bryan Johnson."
You know, and Bryan's like, "Oh, shit."
And she goes, "Do you have ID?"
And I said, "Yeah." And she's like, "Can I see it?"
I was like, "It's in my wallet, and I didn't bring my wallet."
She's like, "Why not?" I was like, "Well, look at these people."
So she took off, and she's shooting the rest of the line.
She's still shooting me and whispering to the camera guy.
Johnson's like, "We should really go now."
Finally, they took off. Then that night, on the Channel 12 News...
...sure enough, "Bryan Johnson"...
...was talking about how bad Dogma was.
My mother called and was like, "There's somebody on TV looks just like you."
I'm sorry. That was a very long answer, has nothing to do with your question.
I'm working from preprogrammed bits.
I'm Raquel Rhinestein.
My question is: Are you ever thinking of making a science fiction film?
A science fiction movie. I don't know.
I think I have made one already: Chasing Amy.
Because you go ask any lesbian, that'll never happen.
Even if, and probably especially because, the dude is Ben fucking Affleck.
There is a sci-fi idea in me, I'm just nowhere near doing it yet.
So I don't... Somewhere down the road.
- Say your name. - My name's Lela.
Lela. L-E-L-A.
- All right. - Well, do you...? No, that's okay.
When you said the thing about Chasing Amy and no self-respecting lesbian...
It's ironic that Adrienne Rich, an amazing poet who wrote "The Last..."
Are you coming out?
- They all know me. I'm... Anyway... - Are you out?
Yeah.
Calm down. Calm down. Calm down.
This is college. You all act like you've never seen a lesbian before.
- So the Chasing Amy question was...? - I'll rephrase it, given what's happened.
I disliked Chasing Amy, even though I loved Clerks and your movies a lot.
I think you're done. Next!
I did feel like it made the point that all a lesbian needs...
...is a good deep-dicking. - Did you? It's an excellent point!
- No. No. No. No. - Do you...?
I'm not saying that is an excellent point.
It's an excellent point you're bringing up. I've heard this one. Can I...?
I let you go on for, like, two hours.
It is like The Kevin Smith Show.
My feelings on that have been the same since 1996 when I wrote it...
...all the way up to this very moment when you said that.
I don't see how someone can say, like:
"The film strengthens the point that all any lesbian needs is one good man."
- Is that what you were saying? - Sort of.
Okay, but we have the idiot character in the movie, Banky, say that...
...hence deflating the argument.
We put those words into the guy who's always wrong in the movie.
When the idiot says that, didn't you get that that's what I was saying?
I got that point, but do you find it weird that you speak to audiences...
...who feel comfortable yelling "Show us your tits!" to a woman in the crowd...?
Very, very uncomfortable.
It wasn't maybe your fault, but I think that movie put that out there.
Stop it. Stop it. This is political. Very uncomfortable.
- That has nothing to do with this. - Well, I think it does.
When I first saw the movie, I thought it was dumb but harmless.
But when I... But I saw that the...
Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Come on, come on!
This is excellent. Excellent, candid point.
I'm pissed we didn't know you when we were making it.
That would've been excellent for the tag line: "Dumb but harmless.
Some bi-curious girl from college." That would've been cool.
- Finish your point. - 'Cause all I need is a deep-dicking?
- Pardon? - Nothing.
I think... Obviously you can't control the way people take the movie.
But it was frustrating to be a lesbian at that point when that film came out.
- How old are you? - I'm 22.
You were... So that's going back four years?
So I was 18. Did you know you were straight when you were 18?
No.
Ma'am, I'm still not sure.
And I've got a wife and child. How irresponsible is that?
All I can do is make movies the way I wanna make them...
...the way I wanna see them, as entertaining as possible.
If I can whip a message in there, that's more than most cats do.
And I feel good. I can sleep with myself, and a man or a woman...
...at night because of that. The movies we've made...
...there's always been gay content in there, would you agree?
You think it's dumb but harmless.
Some people think it's a breakthrough that really enabled them to come out.
Large portions of the gay community love what we do.
A very small pocket is like, "He's a closet fag-hater"...
...not knowing the amount of cock that I chug myself.
But that's none of their fucking business.
I've always thrown that in there because I always felt, from Clerks forward...
Even before I knew we were gonna have an audience.
When I was writing Clerks... I have a brother. My brother's gay.
I just outed him to everyone at Cornell. He's very out.
My brother and I had a discussion when he first came out about movies...
...and how weird it is to go to predominately 99.9999% hetero movies...
...and watch the guy and girl live happily ever after...
...never see himself represented on the screen...
...unless it's a very swishy stereotype, i. E. The Birdcage.
Or an ice pick killer. I thought, "That's pretty shitty.
He can't get into a flick on any level because he doesn't feel represented."
So I said, "I'm gonna throw a little gay content in the flicks...
...so my brother will know it was in there for him."
Because, why the fuck not?
When I found out we had an audience, I said:
"Fuck it. I'm throwing lots of gay content in."
Because they're sitting there... And yes, they are predominately young.
And I do have fans that are like, "Great movies, man! Wanna get high?"
I also do have some fans, nobody in this room, mind you...
...that are like, "Love those movies, man.
But why is there so much gay stuff in them? Gay's bad."
I always try to fuck with their heads. Case in point was Chasing Amy.
We make Chasing Amy and have our first test-screening.
They keep 10 people around to do a focus group. Ever been to a focus group?
They keep 10 people and ask them questions.
From 200, they keep 10 around and ask them questions:
"What did or didn't you like about the movie? Tell us why."
They give that data to the filmmaker, and they're like, "Do it better!"
Horrible fucking process. But it's interesting to hear what people say.
So they talked to one cat in the audience. He's like...
I won't forget this guy.
He's like, "I like Kevin Smith's movies. I am a Kevin Smith character.
I am Brodie. I love the mall and comics.
And I wouldn't fuck Shannen Doherty either."
If you saw this motherfucker, he wouldn't have a chance.
I'm in the back, 'cause you can't reveal yourself or that'll skew the data.
I'm sitting there, chuckling and listening, and he's like:
"I identify with the Banky character because it's Jason Lee again.
I dig him, I'm with him, and suddenly, boom, the dude's gay.
What the fuck's that say about me?"
From the back, below my chair, I was like, "It means you're fucking gay!"
And the point of the story, that man is Elton John.
The point is that cat... Of course, I didn't follow him.
I didn't tag him like a shark and follow him for the rest of his life.
But the dude had to make a decision right there.
He either continues being a fan of our stuff or continues being like:
"Fucking gays scare me. Any dick that's not mine terrifies me."
Chances are the dude stuck around.
Because we've sold a shitload of merchandise at our website.
He's gotta be one of them.
I always like to think of it as, like, I've got them sitting there...
...give them a message, a moral...
...my view of the world. That's what good filmmakers do.
You can't change or cure the world. You can say:
"This is it through my eyes. Do you agree or not?"
And a lot of people seem to agree. Not a lot, you know.
We've got fans, so they're smart. We'll lead the world into the 21 st century.
And I'll make a profit on their backs.
You can't be responsible for your audience to some degree.
Hopefully they get it. If they don't, you can't hammer it at them.
That's when the movie stops being entertaining. You're being didactic.
You're just like, "This is this, that is that."
Dogma runs very dangerously close to being a didactic movie.
But thankfully, every once in a while, Mewes makes an ass-fucking joke.
People forget we're talking about Jesus for a little while.
So it's a dangerous line, but give me credit.
I have done flicks where they're far more gay-friendly than most. Yeah?
Yeah.
Thanks.
Don't. Please, stop.
Lela's the smartest one here, because now everyone knows that she's gay.
So she can easily get a date at the end of this thing.
People are like, "You're that gay chick. I'm gay too."
What are you doing after the show...? Wait, never mind.
See, you can't hold me responsible for that.
Rock on.
That's a tough balancing act. Tough balancing act.
Don't like him, need his money.
Just kidding. All right, enough being political, let's do some dick jokes.
Who's next? This side.
- Okay, my name is Grayden Blue. - Again?
- Grayden Blue. - Grayden. All right.
Thank you. I'm starting production on my own movie very soon...
...and I was wondering if you had any advice or money for me.
No.
Chap Stick.
Do you have any advice on how to get money, funding for a film?
Yeah. Head works a lot.
If you don't wanna give head...
Well, I was hoping to not have to do that if there are easier ways.
If you're very conservative like yourself...
...credit cards work very well. You can get a bunch of credit cards.
- I thought about that. - Do you have any?
I've got one. It's maxed out already.
- Which is it? - It's a MasterCard.
- Is it yours or parents'? - Mine.
- Is it? So you can build on that. - Yeah.
- Do you have a job? - Not at the moment.
Here's what you do: Find a video store...
...like, a mom-and-pop store, not a chain.
- You don't wanna work at a Blockbuster. - Dear God, no.
Some of these people do want to work there.
Make sure you work the desk so that you answer the phone.
Get a bunch of credit card applications. Fill them all out.
Say that you're the manager of the store and you make $50,000 a year.
Then, when they call in to check, say, "Yes, he works here...
...he is the manager, and he makes $50,000 a year."
They start sending you credit cards. That's how I got all mine.
I'd answer the phone at RST Video and be like:
"Kevin Smith is an excellent manager. Makes $50,000 a year.
The highest-paid manager in the video business."
Credit cards are the best scam on earth.
Get a bunch of credit cards. That's my advice.
- Cool. Thank you. - All right.
You're so polite. You're gonna applaud for everybody that asks a question?
Just like, "It was a good question. Terrible answer, good question."
For Clerks, you maxed out your cards and borrowed money.
That's a big leap. What kept you going while you were making the film?
It just seemed, like, to make sense at the time. Like, I was a kid...
Sorry.
I was trying to give him something from my heart...
...and you're sitting there like:
- Are you done? - I'm done. I'm...
It just felt like it was the time to do it. I was young.
I was 22, 23 at the time.
If you're gonna do something stupid like charge a bunch of film stuff...
...on your credit cards, then do it while you're kind of young.
- My name's Geek. - What is it?
Geek. You said that sucking dick is a great way to make money.
I wanted to know if I could suck yours for, like, five bucks?
All right. Wait. Wait. Wait.
- Anyway... - Wait. Wait. Wait. Whose five bucks?
Well, I wanna get paid, because I'm broke now.
So you want me to pay you $5.00.
If you want me to pay you to suck your dick, I might do it...
...just so I could say I sucked Kevin Smith's dick.
- Anyway... - Why...? Wait.
Why does everyone boo that?
- Sucking dick is a good thing. - You guys are just jealous.
My real question is you were supposed to make Clerks 2...
...before you made Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back.
Whatever happened to that script? Could it be found in...?
I'm still wrapping my head around the notion of you sucking my dick.
- And your name's Geek? - My name's Geek.
G, double E, K, I think.
- Do you know the term's origin? - No. Wanna explain it?
- A geek bites the heads off chickens. - I could do that.
I would never let you suck my dick with a name like Geek.
Now if your name was Ron...
Anyway, so what happened to the script?
- With which script? - Clerks.
What happened to the script for Clerks 2?
Clerks 2. You can't get up there and start talking about dick-sucking...
...then segue into a question. - You opened yourself up for it.
- Pardon? - You said that sucking dick...
...was a great way to make money. I wanna make money.
- I didn't open myself up for anything. - Sit the fuck down!
They're sending you a message, Geek.
Clerks 2 became Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back.
I got five bucks!
Another reason you'll never see my name next to Scorsese, Woody Allen...
...and Spike Lee. Scorsese speaks a lot at NYU...
...and I'm damn skippy nobody's ever like, "I'll suck your dick for $5.00!"
Not during the lecture, anyway.
You. Your turn.
That's all right, that kid stole my question.
That's good.
I was just curious...
...you've had run-ins with the Catholic League and, most recently, GLAAD.
- I was curious... - Isn't that weird?
I had my run-ins with GLAAD, yet I considered letting him suck my dick.
Where's GLAAD now, you know?
I was curious, have you had...? Besides the whole round with Michael Eisner...
...have you had any confrontational experiences within the industry?
Paul Thomas Anderson getting a little angry...
...at your public bash of Magnolia? - Not at all. I ran into Paul...
...as I was getting my physical for Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back.
- Isn't it weird that...? Why's that funny? - I don't know.
You're like, "You and 'physical' should never be in the same... "
When you're about to direct a movie, they make you take a physical.
They have to insure the director...
...in case the director drops dead of a heart attack...
...if he smokes a lot and eats really bad food.
So I'm getting my physical. I'm sitting there filling out the paperwork...
...wondering if I'll have to have my balls grabbed...
...wondering if I'll have to pay for it. - Five bucks!
Or if he'll pay me.
I hear a guy go, "Kevin, hello." I look, and it's Paul Thomas Anderson.
I was like, "How are you?" He was like, "Good."
I was like, "Just getting my physical." He said, "Me too."
I said, "What you shooting?" He said, "Movie with Adam Sandler."
He says, "Good to see you," and he left.
And after he left I was just like, "Oh, my God.
That was the motherfucker I bitch-slapped on the Internet."
And he was so classy, you know?
I wasn't even looking. The dude was behind me.
He could have come up behind me with a fucking chair and been like:
He was like, "Hey, Kevin." And he could have then hit me with a chair.
So I'd see it was him. That would've been my move.
I would have been like, "Hey, Paul."
If he said something about me. But he was real classy. That was cool.
I felt bad for my comment. I was like, "I shouldn't have said that."
Any run-ins with studio execs?
- Who actually did hit me with a chair? - Yeah. No.
I guess, having to make compromises... Are there things you held back...
...because of test audiences, executive decisions, things like that?
You got all serious on me. We were having fun.
When I worked on Mallrats, there were notes I didn't like.
Since it was my second movie, I wound up taking them.
I didn't find the diplomatic way around avoiding the notes. I bought into it.
For example, there was a scene in Mallrats where Jay and Silent Bob...
...and Brodie and T.S. are in the food court...
...talking about scars they've gotten from going down on girls.
When I handed in the script, they said, "No audience will find this funny.
It's too racy. This doesn't belong in a movie."
I was like, "All right." I pulled it out. I put it in a better movie.
Then there was a sequence where Jay and Silent Bob throughout the movie...
...were running around the fucking mall and shit.
One of the running gags in the first and second draft...
...was they were constantly busting in on Gwen when she was trying on shit.
And one of the times, they were in a booth next to her...
...and they were peeking through a hole in the wall.
It was my homage to that great cinema epic Porky's.
And Silent Bob starts jerking off. And he jerks off...
...and he shoots up in the air...
...and it comes over and lands in Gwen's hair.
She screams, and they go tearing-ass out.
The next time you see Gwen, when she meets up with T.S. and Brodie...
...she still has it matted in her hair.
That was in the script. They were like, "That's not funny."
I swear, this is a true story.
"That's not funny. Nobody will pay to see that.
You will turn off an audience with come-in-the-hair-type jokes."
So I took it out, and then somebody else put it in their movie.
They didn't take my idea. Great minds think alike.
They did it, and their movie made 120 million bucks.
I was perturbed about that. But that was the only time, during Mallrats.
We were so new to the process, we believed whatever we were told.
We wanted to make it for $2 million. They were like, "lt'll be $6 million."
Why? We don't have to make a movie for 6 million.
It's a couple of kids running around a mall. It doesn't cost that much.
It's not like it has a rubber poop monster in it.
They said, "You can't make a movie for less." I said, "We made one for $28,000."
They're like, "That's not a real movie, is it?"
I should have known right there. I sat there going, "I guess you're right."
Maybe it'll be a cartoon one day.
So we bought into it. You grow older, and you're like:
"Wait, I have more power than this." You start ignoring certain things.
Particularly bad notes about removing come-in-hair jokes.
- Thanks. - Thanks.
On the topic that you brought out on comic books...
...the "true Hollywood story" with Superman Lives...
...and whether it was you who didn't want Tim Burton to go down with it...
...or if he just wasn't happy with what you'd done with it... What's your take?
This is going back a few years.
In '96, '97, I was commissioned by Warner Bros...
...to write a script for a new Superman movie.
And how it came about, I think, was that somebody saw Mallrats...
...somebody at Warner Bros...
...and was just like... Watched Brodie and T.S. talk...
...about the Kryptonite condom, and they were like:
"This guy seems to know a lot about Superman."
So I got called in for a meeting at Warner Bros.
They said, "There's a couple projects that you can rewrite."
At this point, the script for Chasing Amy had started circulating.
People were like, "He can write." So they offered me rewrite work.
They said, "We have three projects." I said, "What are they?"
"One is a remake of an Outer Limits episode called 'The Architects of Fear. '
The second is Beetlejuice Goes Hawaiian. "
I was like, "Didn't we say all we needed to say with the first Beetlejuice?
Must we go tropical?"
And the third was a project called Superman Reborn.
That's what interested me. I was like, "You're gonna make another Superman?
I'd love to do that." And they said, "Well, that's a long shot.
I can't give you that right here. That has to go through lots of people...
...because it's a big franchise." I said, "What do I have to do?
Whose fucking dick do I have to suck to get this job?"
And thankfully, he didn't say his.
He said, "Why don't you take the script home...
...read it, and tell me what you think of it."
I read the script and was like:
"This is fucking terrible. This is a horrible script."
It was really, really bad.
It was kind of like the Batman TV-show version...
...of a Superman movie. Very campy.
I went back to Warner Bros., sat down with the dude.
He was like, "What did you think?" I said, "It was quite bad."
He said, "'Bad' meaning good?" I said, "No, bad. Fucking terrible."
And I'm going on for about five minutes how bad the script is:
"Did you pay somebody to write this? Is the writer somebody's cousin?
Who let somebody write this script?
You paid this dude? Can you get the money back?
Because this is horrendous."
He was looking at me, nodding and going, "Well, thanks for coming in."
I called my friend Walter in Jersey. He's a big comic book fan. I was like:
"I went into Warner Bros. And told them their Superman script sucked.
Revel, revel. Jersey, represent.
Fuck Hollywood!" Walter's like, "Why didn't you offer to write it better?"
And I was like:
Because I hadn't thought of that. I said, "Fuck!"
But the next day my agent called: "They want to see you at Warner Bros."
I said, "Really? All right."
So I went back. It was the same dude I talked to originally...
...and there was another dude. The first guy was like:
"Do me a favor, tell him what you told me about the Superman script."
And I was like, "All right. It's bad. Sucks. Did your cousin write it?"
Did that for about five minutes, and they just nodded...
...and then they're like, "Well, thanks for coming in."
I went home. The next day, got another call from my agent:
"They wanna meet with you at Warner Bros. Again." I said, "All right."
Because I really didn't have much to do.
So I go back, and it's the two dudes and now there's a third dude.
They're all in a semi-circle of chairs, and the first two guys are like:
"Tell him what you told us about the Superman script."
I just imagined it as a kind of water cooler situation.
One guy's standing at the water cooler with somebody, and he was like:
"You should hear what the Clerks dude said about the Superman script."
The other guy's like, "What'd he say?" He's like, "Fuck it. Just bring him in."
So I told them again, and it went on like that for a whole week.
I'd go back, there'd be another person. I kept saying the same shit.
Finally, I got to the guy at the top, Lorenzo di Bonaventura.
Now there's six to eight guys at a large table.
They're all like, "Tell Lorenzo what you told us about Superman. "
I did my spiel, and Lorenzo said, "What would you do differently?"
I said, "I hadn't thought about it, but you could try this and that."
He's like, "We'll give you a shot at it." I said, "All right. Awesome."
He goes, "It's pending approval of the producer."
I said, "Who's the producer?" They said, "Jon Peters. Meet with him."
Jon Peters, if you don't know, is a producer on movies like...
He was an exec producer on Rain Man.
He was a producer on Batman.
He was a producer on The Main Event, the Barbra Streisand boxing movie.
He got his start in the business as Barbra Streisand's hairdresser.
One day, he became a producer.
Because in Hollywood, you just kind of fail upwards.
So anyway, I'm going to meet Jon Peters.
I go to his place. And he was a hard-core producer on Batman.
It was his baby from beginning to end. When you get to his house, it shows...
...because it's like driving up to Wayne Manor.
This is a big mansion, through woods and shit.
It looks like there's a holographic cave to one side.
So they bring you in, and he shows up wearing short tennis shorts and shit.
He's a built dude with a perfect head of hair...
...like well-quaffed, or coiffed.
He says, "They tell me you got a take on Superman. " I tell it to him.
After I'm done, he's looking at me, nodding. He goes:
"You know why you and me will do a good job on Superman?"
I said, "Why?" He's going, "You and me, we get Superman.
You know why?" I said, "No."
He said, "Because you and me, we're from the streets."
Now I grew up in suburban New Jersey.
Never saw a black man till I was about 28.
I'm the farthest thing from the streets there are. I grew up on a street.
But not on "the streets."
I'm thinking, "I'm from the suburbs, you're a hairdresser.
Neither of us are from the street." But I don't say that. I want the job.
So I said, "Who would you see playing Superman?"
He said, "If I had to cast it right now?"
I said, "Yeah." And he said, "Sean Penn."
And I was like, "Spicoli?"
It was an interesting choice. He's like, "Did you see Dead Man Walking?"
I said, "Yeah." He's going, "Look in his eyes in that movie.
He's got the eyes of a violent, caged animal, of a fucking killer."
And I was like, "Dude, it's Superman."
He's like, "I got some directives for you if you move forward...
...some things I want you to do and don't in the script. Three things, okay?
One, I don't wanna see him in that suit.
Two, I don't wanna see him fly.
And three, he's got to fight a giant spider in the third act."
I'm like, "Let's go back to one. When you say you don't want him in the suit... "
He's like, "Don't wanna see him in it. It looks too faggy."
And I was just like, "No fags on the street, I take it."
I don't say that because I want the fucking job.
He said, "I don't wanna see him fly."
I said, "Well, the suit and flying define Superman."
He said, "Don't wanna see it.
No scenes where he's flying around carrying people. Horseshit."
I said, "All right, no flying."
I said, "But the giant spider intrigues me.
Why that?" And he's like, "Do you know anything about spiders?"
And I said, "No."
He said, "They're the fiercest killers in the insect kingdom."
And I was like, "What does that have to do with our non-flying Superman?"
He said, "There's gonna be a scene that I want.
When I saw King Kong as a kid, there's a scene where King Kong's revealed...
...and it's a real big moment. I want that in this movie.
I want some doors to open up and a big fucking spider's there."
So I was just like, "All right. I'll give it a shot."
So I went back to Warner Bros., and they said:
"We heard from him. He likes you. We're gonna hire you and move forward.
Did he bring up the spider?"
I said, "He did! He brought up the spider. Did he tell you?"
They're like, "Every day with the spider."
I said, "What should I do?" They're like, "Do it, but try not to call it a spider.
Can you call it something else?" I was like, "Thanagarian Snare Beast?"
They're like, "Go."
I was ready to go start writing, then I was told to write an outline first.
I was like, "What? An outline?"
They said, "Give us an overview so we can approve the story...
...so you can go write the script. We need an outline."
I said, "Can I include dialogue?" They said, "Yeah."
Dialogue's about the only thing I know how to do, so I wrote 80 pages.
Just an 80-page outline with tons of dialogue...
...and very few prose passages.
I was in L.A. all this time. I wanted to go back to Jersey.
I turn it in and say, "I'm going back to Jersey.
Let me know what you think. You can reach me at home."
And they said, "Well, first off, this is 80 pages."
I was like, "It's the outline."
They're like, "An outline is, like, four pages max."
And I was like, "Well, I'm just overcompensating 'cause I grew up fat."
They said, "Second off, you can't leave. You gotta read Jon the outline."
And I said, "What do you mean...? Read Jon the outline?"
They said, "Yeah. He likes to have the outlines read to him by the writer."
And I said, "Do I have to fucking tuck him in when I'm done too?"
So I go back up to fucking Wayne Manor.
I sit down with Jon. And Jon puts me in a chair.
He's got a couch in this huge fucking living room.
He lays down on the couch, and he goes:
And I said, "What's with that?"
And he's like, "I like to visualize the movie while it's being read to me.
So I'm looking at it up here." He was building a little screen...
...in his mind's eye. This was a screen.
So I was just like, "All right. Here we go." And I start reading.
Since it's Superman, you tend to use the term "Superman" a lot.
I didn't wanna keep doing that. Being a comic book fan, I changed it up.
Called him Kal-El when he was on Krypton. Man of Tomorrow, Man of Steel.
So I'm reading the first few pages, when he's a baby on Krypton.
I had to redo the origin. It's Kal-El this, Kal-El that, blah, blah, blah.
And he's like, "Wait a second. Wait a second. Who the fuck is Kal-EI?"
And I was like, "Kal-El is Superman."
He's going, "All right. Why?" And I was like, "That's his Kryptonian name."
And he goes: I'm like, "Krypton's where he's from."
He's like, "Right, right. Fucking planet. Boom. All right, all right."
"Go."
So we go back into it and shit, and I read it.
When I'm all done, he's like, "All right, I think we got a movie here.
The problem: You're missing action beats.
Every 10 pages, something big has to happen."
I said, "What are you thinking about?" He's like, "It's just an example:
The scene where Brainiac goes to the Fortress of Solitude to find Superman."
Superman's dead at this point. Hope I didn't spoil the movie.
"Brainiac's looking for him at the Fortress. Something should happen.
There should be a big fight." I'm like, "But Superman's dead."
He's like, "I know, but can't Brainiac fight something else up there?"
I was like, "Well, like what?"
He's like, "What about, like, Superman's guards? His soldiers."
And I'm like, "Why would Superman need guards?
You know, he's Superman. And plus, it's called the Fortress of Solitude.
Nobody's up there."
He said, "Jesus Christ. Where is it? Is it in the Antarctic?"
I said, "Yeah." He's like, "What about polar bears?"
I was like, "Polar bears?" He said, "Yeah. Have him fight polar bears.
Brainiac's trying to get in the Fortress.
Polar bears come at him, and he just fucking kills one, and one runs away.
Because we don't want to piss off the PETA people."
I said, "You want me to write a scene where Brainiac is wrassling polar bears?"
He says, "Yeah. You know anything about polar bears?"
I said, "No, I don't."
He's like, "Polar bears are the fiercest killers in the animal kingdom."
At this point, I'm just like:
"This dude has way too much access to the Discovery Channel."
So I get done with my first draft, and I send it in, and they like it.
They start sending it off to people. They send it to Nic Cage, Tim Burton.
During this time, we have the premiere for Chasing Amy.
I invite Jon because I know he doesn't know anything about my work.
In fact, nobody at Warner Bros. knows my work...
...beyond having read the script for Chasing Amy.
I was always afraid somebody at Warner Bros. Would be like:
"We gave our multimillion-dollar franchise to the Clerks guy?
Like, he's gonna turn in a script with fucking Clark jumping on Lois going:
'How many fucking dicks did you suck?"'
I figured it was fair to invite the producer of the movie I was writing...
...to see my new movie.
I said, "We're having a premiere for Chasing Amy. Wanna come?"
He showed up, and I talked to him the next day.
He was going, "Interesting. Interesting flick."
Which in Hollywood means "I didn't like it at all."
He's going, "You know what I liked?
The gay black guy. I liked that a lot. I liked his voice."
I said, "Yeah, Dwight is very funny."
He said, "That's what we need in our movie."
I was like, "You want Dwight? He'd be happy to do it."
He said, "No. We just need that voice, that character...
...somebody like him in our movie. Can't Brainiac have a sidekick?"
And I was like, "Yeah, I guess."
And he's like, "Give him a little robot sidekick...
...and give him that dude's voice."
I said, "Really? You want the robot to sound like a gay black man?"
And he said, "That's what this movie needs, a fucking gay R2-D2."
At this point, the Star Wars movie was in rerelease.
It opened up that previous weekend, made like 30 million bucks.
He'd gone to see it again. He was like, "We need shit like that in our movie.
We need something that we can make toys of and shit like that.
Like Chewie. We need Chewie in this movie."
I was like, "You want me to just fucking write Chewie into the movie?
Superman wrassling Chewie?"
He said, "No, but something like that.
Maybe Brainiac has a little cute dog, and we can make a toy out of it.
Because that's what it's about. We gotta sell toys off this movie."
I said, "I don't know if that's gonna work."
He said, "Don't tell me it's not gonna work. I want my Chewie."
I was like, "I got your fucking Chewie right here."
But I don't say that because I like the job.
So Tim Burton and Nic Cage sign on based on my draft.
And I was kind of excited. That's kind of neat.
Fucking Tim Burton, Batman. And Nic Cage, you know...
Fucking Nic Cage.
But when Tim Burton got signed onto the project...
...Tim Burton signed a pay-or-play deal...
...which means, no matter what happens, Tim Burton gets paid his directing fee.
At that point, it was 10 million bucks. 5 to 10 million dollars.
Tim Burton, once he signs the deal, turns around and says:
"I'm gonna bring on my guys to write a script."
Warner Bros. Was like, "What about the script we're developing?"
He said, "I don't wanna use that. I wanna do my own script."
Presumably a version of Superman where he has scissors for hands.
So they turn around and tell me, "Kevin, we're done.
Tim wants to go another way with a new writer." And I was like, "All right."
I wasn't really that upset. I'd worked on it for two drafts...
...and I got to hang out with a really fucked up, kooky dude.
A dude who I can tell stories about for the rest of my life.
And they paid me a lot of money. I would have done it for free.
I didn't tell them that. And it was just fun.
I got to work on Superman. I got incredible access into the DC archives.
People would give me free Superman shit all the time.
Then I got shitcanned, and I started throwing Superman stuff away.
Who needs to be reminded?
But I was really reminded the next summer when I went to the movies...
...and saw a movie that Jon Peters had produced.
And it was called The Wild Wild West.
I'm sitting in the theater watching the movie.
I'm like, "Good Lord, this is a piece of shit."
But then, all of a sudden...
...a giant fucking spider shows up.
Here's a quick follow-up question: Did you enjoy Batman?
Since the same people...
Did I enjoy Batman? Yeah, I enjoyed Batman.
With all its flaws and shit. Yeah. Absolutely.
When the movie came out, I had no idea I wanted to be in film.
I just watched movies. That summer was huge.
You couldn't turn around without seeing the bat signal.
People were cutting it into their fucking heads.
It was the summer of Batman. If you were a comic book fan, it was hot.
I was real deep into it at that point.
I had just gotten back into comics, and Batman was everywhere, so I was a fan.
But Tim Burton, I guess, like...
Ever since the Superman incident, people bring me copies of the script.
They buy it at comic book conventions or the Internet and ask me to autograph it.
I say, "All right." And I always write, "Fuck Tim Burton."
Because I figure he'll never see it. But I guess Tim Burton finally saw one.
Because during the summer, right before Jay and Bob came out...
...and after Planet of the Apes came out...
...there was a piece that ran in the New York Post on Page Six...
...in which Burton chewed me a new asshole.
At the end of Planet of the Apes... Hope I'm not spoiling it for anyone.
Marky Mark goes back to fucking present day.
It is fucking Marky Mark.
I don't care what he calls himself now.
It was just like, "Feel it, feel it." You know?
The underwear dude.
Marky Mark goes back to the present day and lands at the Lincoln Memorial.
The Lincoln Memorial has a monkey's head on it or something.
The cops get out, and they're all monkeys. He's like:
And the audience is like, "What?"
I'm talking to this dude from the New York Post named Lou Lumineck.
He's a friend who's been covering our stuff from the get-go on Clerks.
He used to live in Bergen County, in Jersey.
So he goes... We were talking about Planet of the Apes.
I was like, "Did you see it? What'd you think?"
"It was fucking terrible!" "It was real bad.
Let's just try to ignore it and pretend it never happened.
But there's one thing in that movie I found interesting, a weird coincidence.
You got the Jay and Silent Bob miniseries?"
I had done this comic book miniseries called Chasing Dogma...
...that took place between the movies Chasing Amy and Dogma.
When they leave Chasing Amy, the comic book story happens.
At the tail end of the comic book, in the last page, they enter Dogma.
It was a little miniseries that bridged it, and fun to do.
We used a whole section of it for Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back.
The whole section with the monkey came right out of the comic book.
At one point, just like in the movie, where Jay is imagining...
...what's gonna happen when monkeys take over the planet...
...or if monkeys took over the planet. We did that in the comic book.
Same montage. There was one shot in the comic that wasn't in the movie...
...which was a bunch of apes pulling the head off the Lincoln Memorial...
...and replacing it with a monkey head.
When I saw Planet of the Apes, I was like:
"That's fucked up! I put that in a comic book once."
On the phone with Lou, I was like, "Pick up your copy of Chasing Dogma.
Go to this page." He looks and goes, "My God! It's just like in the movie."
I say, "Isn't that fucked up? Great minds think alike, motherfucker."
He said, "You wanna say something? We can make a piece for the paper."
I said, "All right." Because I'm a press whore.
I will do anything to see my name in print.
So I was just like, "Yeah, great." Even though it wasn't news.
He said, "What do you have to say about it?" I said, "I'm really mad.
I feel like I've been ripped off, and I am contemplating legal action."
We're on the phone, like:
Forty-year-old guy, 30-year-old guy:
So he's like, "You mind if I call Tim Burton and get a comment?"
I said, "Go ahead. Let's get Tim in on it. That'll be awesome."
So the piece runs in the paper two days later on page six.
And it said, "Smith Furious at Burton," or something akin to that.
And I read the article, and my quotes don't come off as like:
"I feel... I'm pissed off." It says, "He's very pissed off.
He feels ripped off, and he's currently contemplating legal action."
I'm going, "That's not what I said at all.
I didn't say it. I was: What? You know?
That's not in the article. Where's the...?"
And in the piece it said, "When asked for comment, Tim Burton said:
'Anybody that knows me knows that I would never read a comic book."'
Which to me explains fucking Batman.
But it said... Then the next quote was:
"And I would especially never read anything created by Kevin Smith."
And I was just like, "Holy shit, man!"
Like, the claws came out. The scissor-hands came out.
Because Tim, I don't know if you've ever seen him in interviews...
I think they did an A&E Biography on him.
But I've seen stuff with Tim in it, and he's always like, "I'm a goofy artist."
"I'm Goth, and I just like movie magic." You know?
Just like a real artsy-fartsy fucking weirdo.
And he wears the black, and he wears big fucking Jackie O. Glasses.
And he's got the hair that goes up and cascades.
He looks like an art-school student. Always like this: You know?
Doesn't dress nice, like this.
Suddenly, Tim went from being like, "I'm just a very kooky guy"...
...to "Fuck fat Smith!
Fuck him up his ass!
I'm Tim Burton! Who the fuck does he think...?
I stole from him? Fuck you!"
You know, the verbal equivalent in the press.
And I was flabbergasted. Taken aback.
I'm used to saying shit about people left and right.
Nobody ever says anything back because people are fairly political.
But for one brief moment, Tim Burton was just like, "The gloves are off!
Let's go."
So I called up Lou. I was like, "What did you do to me? What's going on?"
He's going, "I told you it would be a page six story."
I said, "I didn't know you would run it like a serious item."
He said, "Once I got the Tim Burton quote, I thought it was great."
I was like, "Yeah, but did you read it?"
He said, "Yeah, it's funny as hell." I was like, "It's funny to me and you!
Everyone else thinks... I got people calling me. CNN, the L.A. Times...
...they wanna know when I'm suing 20th Century Fox.
We were..."
And he said, "Look, man, just be happy, because he had more to say."
Lou, after we got done talking, called Tim's publicist.
Tim's publicist's name is Bumble Ward.
I'm not making it up.
Say it one more time. Tim's publicist's name is Bumble Ward.
There is somebody on this planet...
...named Bumble.
Bumble fucking Ward. He calls Bumble, and he's like:
"Kevin Smith said this about Planet of the Apes. Would Tim like to comment?"
And Bumble Ward at first was just like, "No." Click.
Lou started writing his article. The phone rang five minutes later.
It was Bumble Ward.
And she said, "Tim does, in fact, have a statement."
He's like, "What is it?"
She read off that statement that he printed.
Apparently, Bumble was like, "What is he, 10? He's got nothing to say"...
...and was talking to Tim like, "The dude who made Clerks...
...says you stole the ending of Planet of the Apes from him."
And Tim was like, "He said what? Get them back on the phone!
Here's my statement: I would never read anything created by Kevin Smith."
So Lou said, "Be happy that I went to press as soon as I did...
...because 10 minutes later, Bumble Ward called back...
...to say Tim has more statements to make."
Like, apparently, Tim was just like, "I... Fucking... And say this too!
He's ugly and his mother dresses him funny.
And fucking Mallrats was stupid. And fucking... His wife's got big ears!"
You know? Shit.
But he'd gone to press so he couldn't put it in the article.
I always thought that if I ever write a book one day...
...a novel or something like that, and you have to put quotes on the back...
...you know, little review blurbs and shit.
Like, "It was a great read." "Smith knocks one out of the park!"
I'm gonna take that Tim Burton quote and use that as the last quote.
"I would especially never read anything created by Kevin Smith."
Hi. I'm gonna play the bad guy in this situation.
Union Board has come up and told me five times to cut it off. So...
I'm sorry.
Kevin! Kevin!
It's just the way that this is set up. I'm sorry.
Nothing against you. I've enjoyed this evening and listening to you.
- Thanks. That's cool. - Everyone, if you want to...
He'll be out in the lobby if you want to meet him.
The quicker he goes to the lobby, you can meet him and chitchat all you want.
E=mc2
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